hi all - my dear wife (who's still to make the final mental break) has asked for a copy of the elders book (horay!!!
), but... i can't find a copy to download for her!!!
am i just loosing my internet search touch, or is it harder to get now???.
Hi All - My dear wife (who's still to make the final mental break) has asked for a copy of the elders book (horay!!!), but... I can't find a copy to download for her!!! Am I just loosing my Internet search touch, or is it harder to get now???
Any tips???
Thanks, Max
i was just thinking, when i was a young teenager, i started an attempt to become fashion conscious.
i started noticing what people were wearing, even at the kh.
ok, especially at the kh!!!!.
I could never stay sitting... MS don't get the libary with closed door privilage much - that's an elder perk, but sure as hell get back of the hall space whenever they want it.
We'd often have most of the MS's all leaning on the literature counter or riding shotgun on the sound mixer or sitting with the hall attendant or supporting the microphone runners... but mostly just bagging the guy on the platform ... most of the meeting... The hero was the guy who could get the speaker to laugh...
The little ante-room by the platform was cool too... go up there 30 min before a talk to collect your thoughts, pray, prepare a whiteboard, sleep, read a novel.... look at the talk material for the first time ... make animal noises that the speaker can hear but not the audience... make obsene gestures to people doing demo's ... whatever... at the circut assembly site there was a table tennis table behind the platform... I was never that game though.... apparently the speaker was the only one who could hear if there was a game on!!
Geting assigned to the right crew at jamboree's was just a matter of figuring who was slacker than you and had a private room (audit and attendant depts were good for that) at the site (typically with fresh coffee and all the geogous sisters). That was 75% of the sessions gone and a reputation witht eh plebs as a hard working bro... even the wife only complains about the bro's using you too much, so no blame and all gain... by the end she was on to the game and was just plain jelous...
No wonder I left! Wanker that I was! (actually, that was an other diversion when it got really bad...)
i have a 'loyal' witness relative suffering various watchtower-related trials, who, i believe, represents an emerging.
new form of jehovah's witness.
she seems to have a sort of 'spiritual schizophrenia'.
I think there are three kinds of JW -
1) the ones who beleive in God and beleive that the JW have the 'truth' (like it or not) and carry on going along with it despite the annoyances of the 'imperfect humans' that keep coming up all the time;
2) those who worship the WT in leiu of God and don't really see the distinction between the two; and
3) those who don't really beleive, but go along with it for some reason (family etc) and just pay lip service to keep the hassles to a minimum
(or a mixture of all three)
Max
(i did put this post on the other thread, but it is so far back on the thread i thought i would post it on it's own, too.
i showed page 170 and 171 of this book to a therapist i know to get her opinion.
i did not ask if i could quote her on the internet, so i will not give her name.
I haven't persoanly been directly affected by this disgraful side of human and Watchtower behaviour and have tended not to give it a great deal of attention, and this was the first time I'd read of this new book.
I must admit that when I read the scans I saw nothing I thought to be suprising or objectionable in it even after reading the therapists comments above. It didn't reflect what I'd have said or thought on the topic, but I thought it was OK given who wrote it and who woud read it...
Then it hit me that I was reading it from my (still) built in JW filters that accepts this sort of language on some unconcious level (at least on topics I haven't been reeducated in properly...). I realised that the responsible section of society won't accept the sort of bad advice or poor expression or built in guilt/shame biases that JW's have seemingly learned to accept (as I did momenterally) on such topics.
When I read WT wrtings on creation/evolution; existance of God etc and I bristle with the obvious (to me now) falseness of what they write. I hope I'll be better attunded to the built in narrowness and uglyness and wrongness of the conservitive religionists, including the Watchtower, on abuse and rape matters.
What paragraph 3 of p.170 says is that the problem with peodophillia is that it may lead the victim to practice sodomy consentually in the future. Is that a voyeristic outlook on child sex under the guise of religious guidence?
I wonder if there's grounds (outside the US of course) for seeking an injunction on the distribution of pp.170-171 on the grounds that it is offensive to standards of public morality and is obscene and is harmful to children? A reflexive stretch on my part perhaps...
Thank you for the post and the thought you've given this. Forgive my ignorance and pervious lack of attention.
MD
weeks, months, years??
?
1 1/2 to 2 years or so... as far as any observer was concerned, there was a bit of a slowing down followed by sudden cold turkey withdrawl from religious life, but that wasn't quite the full story...
For me there was some in vino veritas (With wine, we speak truth) involved for the first real crack to appear in my 3rd Gen JW thinking.
We were staying with the worldly inlaws for 2 weeks a few years ago. I took a shower whilst as pissed as a fart (drunk) after another great night out, and mused again that what the WT says about worldly people wasn't always completly true...
I nearly passed out when it hit me that it was just as well not everything they said was true*, becauase then it'd be even worse!!!! Eg: they were pushing the line that the congregations were a forgleam of the eternal prison paradise on earth and the screws elders were showing us the way life would be led forever under Stalinism God's arrangement... what a horrific thought!!!
I could only stay in 'the truth' if I ignored at least half of what the organisation said and did.
Understandably, this idea (that being a JW was bad whether it was the truth or not, and that it was worse if what they said was actually true) was the beggining of the end for me - but took another 18 months or so of H2O, Franz, Freeminds, College etc to come around to the natural conclusion of stopping being a JW in my own mind and stopping going along with it.
Once I couldn't stand it anymore, I got deleted as an MS as quickly as I could without causing too many problems for myself (like having to say why; I let then be relieved I was stepping down), went to one more meeting after the announcement and never, ever went again.
That's 4 or 5 years ago now.
Max
* 'Truth' in WT speak is about the same as 'Stable', 'Plug & Play' or 'Compatable' in Microsoft speak... nice sounding, but the meaning in the corporate dialect varies from the English language meaning of the word... (though W2k isn't too bad)
have you pondered the "evidence" of the world-----of history------of science----of philosophy-----of psychology?
have you personally,without the help of others,launched into a thorough investigation concerning god,the bible,and jesus christ?
while i myself am still in pursuit,i am not yet finished nor have i come to any absolute conclusions about anything i am asking of you in this post.
Hi - Yeah, I'd like to know more and on the basis of evidence and have had an ongoing (though inconsitant and half-hearted) reeducation program (which included college)...
I've just read Bill Bryson's recent A short history of almost everything which gave a good (I think) overview of the scientific search for evidence over the last few hundred years and the present state of knowledge in his easy to read, good humoured and informative way.
Sagan's Demon haunted world (mentioned above) is excellent for helping to develop the thinking skills to recognise evidence and reject 'baloney' (I think the centre-piece is his 'Balony Detection Kit' of skillls in sceptical thinking). I'd like to read Sagan's Cosmos one day too, when I was small I saw the TV series and it made an impression.
Richard Dawkins' The blind watchmaker makes it crystal clear that the way creationists describe evolution is a load of hooey and dishonestey. You might accept or reject creation or evolution, but you'll certainly see the falsehoods many creationists (JW included) use in debunking evolution. (I say all that on the basis of reading the first 1/4... after that it goes over my head).
I'd read them in that order (then re-read as much of the JW's creation book as you can stand before throwing the book out the window and your guts all over the floor...)
Enjoy
what do you think of this guy?.
australia is a beautiful place.
one person i know, is here from australia and we got into a conversation last night after she had gone shopping.
There's a suburb called Fanny Bay in Darwin (city in the north of Australia), and very swish suburb too (full of rich c**ts)!! Steve Irwin's good at what he does, so good on him... but he's still an f***ing idiot IMO... (oohh.. two swear words, bad lad Max...)
today (april 25) was anzac day, a public holiday for most, but it means more than that to many australians.
it is a day when we remember those australians who fought in wars, in distant lands, for their country.
it is not a day to glorify war.
Caught! I saw the second half of it on SBS. I didn't see them discuss the withdraw though, apparently they left their bolt action 303's behind and many of them rigged up a device that'd fire the rifle after a delay and that covered the retreat (being bolt action, that could only fire once per rifle, so they had to be quick.. )
I remember standing aside during school ANZAC services too, and only went to my first dawn service last year (shamefully I didn't go yesterday). That was in Broome and it's held in a park alongside the Bay where the Japanese bombed seaplanes full of people, so that added somthing to the event.
Take care, Max
today (april 25) was anzac day, a public holiday for most, but it means more than that to many australians.
it is a day when we remember those australians who fought in wars, in distant lands, for their country.
it is not a day to glorify war.
Thank you, Prisca
The fighting was so intense that it became a game to count the longest break between shooting, day or night, over the weeks of the whole campaign. While General Monash reckons it was 15 seconds, the diggers consensus seems to be 11 seconds. It was an intense and protracted battle.
Perhaps the greatest feat was the eventual withdrawl. They withdrew thousands of troops overnight without the Turks noticing, even though they had been so close they could smell each other's cooking. They just weren't there in the morning, even though the rate of fire didn't drop during the withdrawal.
The Turks lost 87,000 men.
Lest we forget.
were you ever told that you didn't look like a jehovah witness?
i never dressed like one of them unless i was at the hall.
i think that people looking at me would never have guessed that i was a witness.
Even now I'm somtimes asked if I'm a 'Christian', dunno why... I never conciously changed the way I dressed or anything, so maybe I still have THE LOOK.... I was wearing a holster and gun the other day, so that wouldn't look very JW...
